Curse

The Black Mumba · Jun 25, 2009, 09:49 PM // 21:49

From today's ra:

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9621/distortionz.jpg

Even if i'm abusing this build, i really hope MB, or distortion, or both get a nerf, so melee will be viable again (we are not sync, look at the guild tags).

Revelations · Jun 28, 2009, 12:54 PM // 12:54

The template is relatively balanced, if powerful in GvG. It's currently one of the few builds causing active splits, and that's definitely healthy. As with any split you need to have good awareness, and you need to coordinate well with your team to do well.

However, it does seem a bit too strong in 4v4. Not incredibly hard to beat with a decent team, but you need to put far more effort into winning than they do. Wouldn't mind seeing a (small) change to distortion recharge/duration to make whirling/wild slightly more viable counters than they are now. Midline that don't need to kite and can happily spam skills without fear of reprisal other than Magebane (or rare PBlock) should give reward proportional to the effort put into playing them, which in arenas is minimal.

Master Ketsu · Jun 29, 2009, 11:05 AM // 11:05

I beat quite a few mb teams in TA during the TA Z-day. Magebane seems to destroy it.

That being said, I don't like the bar. It's the kind of no-skill-required buttonmashy crap that hurts the game. Some energy nerfing is at hand...

bungusmaximus · Jun 29, 2009, 12:09 PM // 12:09

Bah I beat 2 sync teams in RA who were running triple MB eles. Eles didn't like pressure, and they still don't like pressure. Monk stomp and fast target swapping wins, and more important, DON'T ball on the same target.

That's particularly annoying however because it's hard to kill a good monk with just 1 melee, but slowly pressuring them out wins, eventually they run out of energy.

Didn't even need whirling axe though, I was running dev hammer, go figure. I think magehunter's would have eaten them alive.

And tell your monk to wand them

Still Number One · Jun 29, 2009, 12:36 PM // 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

eventually they run out of energy.

How bad do you have to be to run out of energy with mindblast...

bungusmaximus · Jun 29, 2009, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

How bad do you have to be to run out of energy with mindblast...

In this case they had it quite consistently shocked, but it's distorton that really runs them dry when everyone is wanding them and rodgort's only hits one foe at a time.

When you have them at low ene they aren't really that threatening anymore, because froom that moment off they only burn energy, we were ofc. not dumb enough to let them re-pack themselves.

The only really annoying things are the meteors, they can rather effectively lineback you with those. I personally think they can leave the entire template alone, and bring back meteor to it's old state (ie. 3 sec cast). MB eles will be rather balanced that way (Note is that I'm not fully aware what a change like that would do to GvG, but meh, let gvg-ers discuss that).

Not to mention what a good dom mesmer can do to MB eles, please, start running dom magic again people, it's FUN ^^. It's still debatable wether a ranger beats a dom mesmer in 4vs4 templates, but I personally prefer dom.

I Angra I · Jun 29, 2009, 03:21 PM // 15:21

There's no way any halfway competent person will run out of energy on a MB ele, even while taking energy loss from distortion, unless their enchants are constantly stripped or mindblast is consistently shut down or something.

bungusmaximus · Jun 29, 2009, 04:24 PM // 16:24

So it's that hard to believe that a good dom mesmer and a hammer warrior can't beat the sh*t out of 3 MB eles? :P

Of course the build doesn't run dry under IDEAL circumstances, but enchant strips and interrupts aren't uncommon in arenas.

Ariena Najea · Jun 29, 2009, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Angra I

There's no way any halfway competent person will run out of energy on a MB ele, even while taking energy loss from distortion, unless their enchants are constantly stripped or mindblast is consistently shut down or something.

Keep in mind that most players running the MB build in the Arenas are likely not skilled or competent players. They probably saw everyone else running it, looked it up on PvX, and rolled through the other players that don't know what they are doing.

I've started bringing an oldschool Power Block build, with Shame and Diversion for healers, and Wastrel's for damage when I get the chance. I'm simply bad at interrupting, but the 2 second casts are a joke to get. I've so far only come up against one player who canceled his actions to waste my PB.

I Angra I · Jun 29, 2009, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

So it's that hard to believe that a good dom mesmer and a hammer warrior can't beat the sh*t out of 3 MB eles? :P

Of course the build doesn't run dry under IDEAL circumstances, but enchant strips and interrupts aren't uncommon in arenas.

k well a dom mes camping it is a completely different story ;o

in gvg though a dom mes can't follow fire eles around the entire map all day though so that's what makes it so powerful/OP in gvg in terms of its emanagement

some guy · Jul 11, 2009, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Just kill mind blast already

I'm a very experienced monk in PvP as a whole, and this shit just needs to die NOW.

lutz · Jul 11, 2009, 09:34 PM // 21:34

A dom mes is absolutely useless against a good Fire Ele, unless the dom mes manages to strip the attunement.

Pblock/pleak/pdrain should never do anything against the fire ele, and Diversion is really the only thing that stops you from casting for about 6 seconds.

PLeak doesn't deny enough energy out of the fire ele who can just swap into high set and spam Mind Blast a couple times.
PDrain sure as hell doesn't do anything.
PBlock is the only interrupt you have to fake.

If the opponent has a Dom Mes, there probably aren't that many hexes to remove (they aren't running a hex build), so removing Diversion is rather trivial.

thinkingofaname · Jul 12, 2009, 12:51 AM // 00:51

I find it funny how people complain about E/Me, I bet half of people here are w/x. They are good vs physical, that's about it. No, they have no pressure unless your team is horrible. Just go check on master of damage if you want numbers, they do as much damage as a ranger with apply poison and mel shot /w vamp bow, and lets not forget about fire shields that everybody can switch to.

Apparently people's idea of balance is "physical should roll over anything that isn't protected by a monk".... guess what, that isn't balance. Also, E/Me isn't the only build that make good use of blocking. Ranger with nat stride and mending touch has been there for how long now? Don't forget R/D escape scythe, 75% block with 33% run. Just because something works doesn't mean its unbalanced, I wouldn't mind MB revert to its previous version (I think it was 3 second recharge), but the MB/distortion combo is valid and should stay this way.

Trinity Fire Angel · Jul 12, 2009, 02:30 AM // 02:30

its not that powerful as above poster meantions. ^^

can easily be killed with scourge healing (+80armour ignor dmg vs shitty heal from MB) in combination with life stealing, etc etc. a good KD and SH or ROJ will easily sort out a MB dist.

bungusmaximus · Jul 12, 2009, 02:41 AM // 02:41

I rather go up against 3 good MB eles then against one competent blindbot anyways. You can singele handedly shut down 2 melees 24/7 with a BSurge/Shock build (In arenas that is) while the only way for MB eles to consistently kill shit is a soul bind necro. Mind blast eles remind me of devishes in a way, they do huge damage, but 0,0 pressure.

Some well known widely used counters agains MB eles in arenas, and don't bother with the build wars stuff because most of them are rather common.

Pain of disenchant
Shock
Power block
Magebane shot
Power spike
corrupt enchantment
whirling axe

But again, if those eles are a huge problem in, said, gvg maybe nerfing the ridiculous e-management is a good idea, a blindbot at least has to prioritize and watch energy, spamming b-surge gets costly on the long run. Gotta refuel with shock arrow or some other form of e-management anyways, shock arrow only gets energy back on an attacking target. Maybe something similar should be done with mind blast. This way the skill will still be pretty strong, but only when you know what you're doing. People that know what they're doing deserve to win imho.

Aeon221 · Jul 12, 2009, 03:42 AM // 03:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutz

A dom mes is absolutely useless against a good Fire Ele, unless the dom mes manages to strip the attunement.

Pblock/pleak/pdrain should never do anything against the fire ele, and Diversion is really the only thing that stops you from casting for about 6 seconds.

PLeak doesn't deny enough energy out of the fire ele who can just swap into high set and spam Mind Blast a couple times.
PDrain sure as hell doesn't do anything.
PBlock is the only interrupt you have to fake.

If the opponent has a Dom Mes, there probably aren't that many hexes to remove (they aren't running a hex build), so removing Diversion is rather trivial.

It's a bar with 3 2 sec cast skills. You don't have to be Jesus to nail at least one.

And 'good fire ele'? Pretty sure that's an oxymoron.

some guy · Jul 12, 2009, 08:35 AM // 08:35

A good fire ele is an oxymoron my friend!

lutz · Jul 12, 2009, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon221

It's a bar with 3 2 sec cast skills. You don't have to be Jesus to nail at least one.

And 'good fire ele'? Pretty sure that's an oxymoron.

Just because you're terrible at fire ele doesn't mean everyone else is. There are good players who play that bar effectively. Their level of play is what you should be working towards. Just because the large pool of players playing the bar are retarded doesn't mean that good ones don't exist. There are pretty big decisions that competent fire eles make that really help out the team (where to put damage, positioning so you don't get interrupted, watching for enchant removal and covering appropriately, cancelling so you don't get Power Blocked), whereas bad ones don't even know the choice is there. This makes a competent fire ele. Good fire eles create opportunities for the team in split situations and capitalize on their teammates' opportunities. This makes a good fire ele.

Sure, the bar has 3 2s cast skills, except only one is truly prone to shutdown. If you get Fire Attunement interrupted, it's your own fault, and you're terrible. Meteor has a 30s recharge, and it's not a super critical skill to interrupt unless you're on split. You won't be camped for that single skill. Getting Power Leaked isn't too big of an issue, and Power Drain is even less of a problem. Your skill recharges in 2 seconds, and you have 2 of them. Even getting Power Leaked on Rodgort's doesn't really do much to your energy pool, since getting it back up is pretty trivial.

The only thing you really need to fake out is Power Block. With an amazing energy engine and cheap, 1s cast spells, if you get Power Blocked reliably (more than 1-3 times the entire match), you're terrible.

Sun Fired Blank · Jul 12, 2009, 10:22 AM // 10:22

There's a serious problem with any game when the ceiling for being good at something is simply not sucking at really basic stuff.

Div · Jul 12, 2009, 04:48 PM // 16:48

Unbuff AoR. Eles lose a lot of energy, healing, and their main cover for attune.

P.S. Before you continue complaining about how overpowered this template is, buy a fire shield and warding spear. A ranger takes just 18 damage from a mblast, and even a monk only takes 32 or 27 damage (with condi armor).